Wrenching help required: stuck tie rod end Update: SUCCESS!

"ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability" (italianjobr53) 07/10/2019 at 18:50 • Filed to: None

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Deep Creep and a nice pipe wrench (which I borrowed from a test cell tech). Thank you all for the advice! 

Morning Oppo, I’ve been trying to remove the outer tie rod on the Mini. The jam nut came off pretty easily but the outer tie rod it self will not budge whatsoever. The machined surface on the inner rod is pretty much worn out by how (I tried a spanner as well as the vice grip in the photo) and it just keeps slipping. We’ve let it soak in pb blaster, hit it with a propane torch but its still stuck on there.

The only way to resolve this, I think is to cut the outer end off and replace the inner rod as well. Is there some other way to remove the outer end?

nerd_racing > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 07:19

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when all else fails and you have to get it off, try using a pipe wrench to hold it from spinning.  Especially if you already buggered it up with the vice grips. 

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > nerd_racing 07/10/2019 at 07:25

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I’ll try it today. The hex surface is still there, kindof, it hasn't been rounded off completely yet.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 07:29

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I’d just replace the inner as well at this point. Then again, I usually just do them together anyway.

CalzoneGolem > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 07:31

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Pipe wrenches are designed to find purchase on even a smooth surface. If that won’t work then you’ll know those pieces have become one.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 07:32

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Do you have space to put something longer on to get more leverage when trying to break the bolt loose? Also, oceans of penetrating oil...if all else fails, heat?

TheRealBicycleBuck > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 07:34

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If you’re going to start cutting, try cutting the nut in half first. A split in the nut along the axis of the hole can be pried apart without damaging the threads on the inner tie rod.

Basically, like this, but extend the cut as far as needed.

https://images.app.goo.gl/pMnCgXYDxDCuGLus6

nerd_racing > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 07:34

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I keep a variety of pipe wrenches in the garage.  NY rust sometimes necessitates them.  Especially on brake bleeders. 

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 07/10/2019 at 07:36

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The problem is that the vice grips keep slipping, even with a longer one that is going to happen. To be clear, the grips hold in the inner end and I’m turning the outer using a spanner.

Pb blaster is a penetrating oil and the propane torch is the heat, neither helped :(

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > CalzoneGolem 07/10/2019 at 07:36

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Gonna try it today. Thanks!

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > TheRealBicycleBuck 07/10/2019 at 07:38

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Its gonna be mighty tough to cut along the edge of the outer tie rod end without damaging the treads on the inner. It's worth a try tho.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 07/10/2019 at 07:39

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That is what I should've done in the first place tbh....anyhow, I'm trying to see if there is a way to do it without cutting stuff.

E90M3 > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 07:41

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The only solution I see is to go buy a green E90.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 07:42

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If you can get in there, carefully split the sides with a cut off wheel. That should relieve the tension and allow you to get it off easily.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > E90M3 07/10/2019 at 07:43

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I’m quite sold on E46s tho.....stop trying to empty my non existent savings  you!

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 07/10/2019 at 07:47

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Yup, its gonna be tough to peel the outer end and not damage the threads tho. Lets see...

E90M3 > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 07:52

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All I heard was Oxford Green E46 M3. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 07:53

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If you just cut carefully and parallel to the tie rod, you will only end up with a slit the length of the threads. That shouldn’t affect functionality.

Although if it’s that hard to get it off, the threads may already be rusted beyond saving, just so you don’t get your hopes up

All I can say is take your time and be careful. Hopefully it goes well, good luck!

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > E90M3 07/10/2019 at 07:54

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ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 07/10/2019 at 07:56

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Thanks!

I’ll definitely be taking my time and not just hacking it off.

I think the threads are dont too, since heat did nothing on them. But I just wanna try all that I could before cutting the rod itself.

Maxima Speed > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 08:19

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Hopefully I’m not to late. Use a grinder and cut grind a it flat on either side enough to get a proper bite with a monkey wrench. Then extend the monkey wrench with a tube. Result...... massive leverage.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Maxima Speed 07/10/2019 at 08:34

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I don’t really wanna hack up the inner end, I'll try a pipe wrench to start off with.

Maxima Speed > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 08:47

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Oh yeah lol. I was forgetting you have to hold the inner from spinning 

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Maxima Speed 07/10/2019 at 09:02

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Shift24 > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 09:03

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What did you heat? The outer or inner tie rod?

Heat the inner as close to the threads of the outer. If its going to break free, the inner threads will try to push on the outer and hopefully break free.

Also I don’t like PB blaster as much as I do S eafoam’s DeepCreep. IMO way better

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Shift24 07/10/2019 at 09:13

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We tried heating both of them to break the rust buildup. I’ll try DeepCreep, never used it.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 09:57

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I don’t have any ideas but check your lower control arms while you are under there. My mechanic has found a bunch of 1st gen Minis with the control arms rusting from the inside out.

Edit: this is what he has been finding a lot of recently:

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 10:14

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Just do the inner too. Shouldn't need to cut anything or remove the outer. Loosen the boot and slide it out. Unscrew inner. Remove both together.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 07/10/2019 at 10:15

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Ouch thats nasty!! Although to look at that i would need to remove the inner ball joint. 

Shift24 > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 10:15

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Granted this backyard testing, DeepCreep showed to be better. He has a previous video on pb but it was mid pack even behind wd-40

Seafoam video 

The pb blaster video

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/10/2019 at 10:22

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How do I loosen the inner with the outer still there? The bigly pipe looking tool to remove  the inner would not fit over the curved outer tie rod end

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 10:37

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Vice grips or pipe wrench. Once you get the boot out of the way you will see the ball socket joint of the inner. That will probably have a couple flat sides you can put a wrench on.

If you intend to reuse the boot you will probably need to cut outer from inner, but the boots are often under $10, so I just replace them. They're often prone to cracking as they get old anyways.

brianbrannon > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 10:57

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MAP gas will get  it red hot. Just be patient

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/10/2019 at 11:00

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I can try that but I don’t think there will be enough space for a pipe wrench/vice grip in there even with the steering rotated all the way.

Definitely replacing the boots if I end up replacing the inner end.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > brianbrannon 07/10/2019 at 11:01

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It was red hot with propane yesterday. Heat cycled it thrice but no joy :(

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 11:09

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Let me know how it goes!

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/10/2019 at 11:13

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Will do!

Urambo Tauro > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 12:59

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T ry heating the outer threads, so that they will expand away from the inner threads.

...or yeah, just replace both. Th at’s what I usually do.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 13:12

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Sorry, completely missed the part where you mentioned PB Blaster and propane torch in your original post...my bad! Sorry!

Good luck! :)

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Urambo Tauro 07/10/2019 at 13:20

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Tried that yesterday , didnt work.

To replace both, I would need to cut the outer. Trying to see if there is any other method

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 07/10/2019 at 13:31

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Thanks!

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 14:08

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Mapp gas  will do the trick.  Cherry red hot and start twisting.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 14:18

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I think the reason the propane doesn’t work is because it’s not as hot and while you may get the outer red hot, you are also transferring heat to the inner and expanding it as well.

With the Mapp gas or a oxy-acetylene torch the outer gets heated quicker and expands before you transfer heat to the inner.  That’s the goal, expand the outer away from the inner.  

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 07/10/2019 at 14:41

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I’ll try Mapp. Thanks!

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 19:18

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You should be able to see it without having to disassemble anything.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 07/10/2019 at 21:00

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Well done! Glad you didn’t have to cut it up.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 07/10/2019 at 21:49

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Me too!

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 07/10/2019 at 21:50

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Didn't see anything worrying. Just one section near the LCA bushing that has started to peel off, nothing major tho